Presentation, Feathers UI and Flash

Nemo

Hi everybody,
My name is Nemo, and I am an amateur programmer.
Pleased to meet you all.

I am new to Node development, and I started learning it using Sails a couple of weeks ago.
Two days ago, I discovered Feathers, which I believed would be a better solution than Sails for what I am looking for, which is a framework allowing me to develop general cross-platform applications.
Then I discovered Feathers UI and it pretty much confirmed to me that I should transit toward Feathers/Feathers UI as it pretty solves all the problems I had with Sails.
(This is not to say Sails is a bad project though, I loved learning it.)

However, before making the transition, I have a couple of questions for which I haven't found answers for on Google.

I am not used to Flash in any ways and as it is now deprecated, I don't believe it would be a good investment learning it nowadays.
I was wondering if Flash was necessary for Feather UI applications to run in a browser, or, for that matter, on any other platforms supported by it.
If this is the case, what are Feather UI's plans to solve that problem when browsers will completely stop using Flash?
Please excuse me if the answer is somewhere on the internet, as the documentation is not all up-to-date everywhere I find it quite hard to figure what the present truth is.
For what I understand, the framework is shifting from AS3/Starling to Haxe/OpenFL, that part's clear enough, but I don't know these projects yet so I am not sure what it really implies for what is to come next.
(See edit at the end)

Feather UI is a very intelligent and powerful project and it is quite sad Adobe stopped supporting it.
I hope that won't halt its progress.
The possibilities are really exciting and I will make sure to follow it attentively from now on, and start developing as soon as possible.

Thanks a lot for all your efforts, particularly Josh.
I can't wait to see what the future reserves for you and your project.

If you need any more details I will be glad to provide them.
Please have a good day.

Edit: I just find out that Haxe allows the use of Javascript, therefore, my supposition is that Feathers UI will probably be compatible with it. Is my assumption right?

joshtynjala

Welcome, Nemo!

Yes, as you discovered, the Haxe programming language can be compiled to JavaScript. With that in mind, apps built with the upcoming new version of Feathers UI can be deployed to the web without requiring Flash Player or any other browser plugins. The compiled output is pure JavaScript that renders to WebGL (with fallback to HTML Canvas).

Additionally, Haxe can compile to C++, which means that you can create native apps (the kind that you can submit to app stores) for iOS, Android, macOS, Windows, and Linux — all from the same codebase.

I should mention that the Haxe/OpenFL version of Feathers UI is still in early development. There are many missing components and features that still need to be ported from the AS3/Starling version. However, you are certainly welcome to give it a try in its current form. I've written some (very basic) documentation for setting up your first project, which you can find here:

https://feathersui.com/learn/haxe-openfl/

Nemo

Hi Josh,
First of all, thank you for your fast answer, this is very much appreciated.

I noticed that even if I have changed my forum settings to receive an email when there is an answer, I didn't receive one.
I checked in my Junk folder and it was not there either.
It can be an error from my part and it is not a serious issue, but I though I might as well signal it.

I am very glad to have a confirmation about Javascript and C++ compilation, that is exactly what I was looking for.
At first I tried figuring out how to make Electron and Cordova work with Sails, and not knowing much about any of those, that's was not a cordial task.

I was aware that the Haxe/OpenFL is in pre-alpha for the moment. That is not a problem for me as I still only have a basic understand of how everything works. I am not planning on making revolutionary applications for the moment.
Besides, I am here for learning first, if everything works out-of-the-box, there's not much fun to be had.

I read your documentation about haxe-openfl, but using a Debian OS, I had to make some more operations for it to work properly.
For the moment, I have been able to install everything up to Visual Studio Code, but I haven't tried creating an application yet.

About Visual Studio Code, I was wondering if Feathers UI could be programmed using other source codes editors than HaxeDevelop and Visual Studio Code?
HaxeDevelop doesn't have a Linux port and even if Visual Studio Code is now open-source, I would still prefer using something that has nothing to do with Microsoft.
I know that Haxe can be developed using many editors, but I am not sure if there could be a future limitation with Feathers UI that I haven't figured.
I suppose that would make my task way more complicated however.

I would be pleased to send you the modifications I made to your documentation if you are interested in adding more specific instructions for Debian and Debian-based OS. Otherwise, I will put it on a support site when it is more complete.
I plan on progressively redoing the tutorial for AS3 and adapt it to the best of my knowledge.

And I have another question, too.
I wanted to make sure that installation of package with NPM still works with Feather UI. I suppose this is the case from what I read and based on the fact Feathers itself is able to do so, but I wanted to make sure.

Please tell me if you would prefer me to create new posts for my next questions, I don't believe there is a rule chart yet.

Have a good day, and thanks again.

AlexHaxe

Nemo If IntelliJ is more to your liking, there is a Haxe plugin for IntelliJ (https://community.haxe.org/t/haxe-toolkit-plugin-v1-2-for-intellij-idea-android-studio-and-other-jetbrains-products-is-now-available/1827). It has quite a long list of features and is in active development, so maybe that works for you.

If you like to code in VIM, there is also vaxe (https://github.com/jdonaldson/vaxe) and there are people who successfully use one of the many VIM language server plugins to connect VIM and Haxe language server.

If you are more of an Emacs person, you can try battle-haxe (https://github.com/AlonTzarafi/battle-haxe) to put Haxe into your Emacs.

Personally I use VSCode, because it works on Linux, MacOSX and Windows, it has the most up-to-date Haxe support, it's easy to write plugins for it and I have contributed some code to a few plugins (so I am a bit biased 🙂).

Whatever IDE you choose you can always switch to a different one at any point, if you find that it works better for you.

joshtynjala

Nemo As @AlexHaxe implies, any IDE or editor that supports Haxe should work with Feathers UI. My aim with Feathers UI is to ensure that it's just a regular library that can be added to a project. Eventually, I plan to write some more setup instructions for some of those other environments, but HaxeDevelop and VSCode seemed like the best two options to start with.

I'd definitely be curious to see what extra steps you needed to do on Linux. Feel free to post a summary here with some details.

You are welcome to post additional questions in this thread, or you can start a new one, if it feels appropriate.

Nemo

AlexHaxe Thanks for that answer, that's very helpful to orientate my research in the future.
I will probably stay with VSC in the end as it seems to be very well made and practical, but it cost nothing to do some comparison first.
And don't worry for being a little biased, I am just as well, that was the source of my question after all.

joshtynjala From what your are saying, I suppose I should study Haxe a bit more to better understand its link with Feathers UI.
I understand more your choice for HaxeDevelop and VSCode now, seems logical to me.
I will try to post more information about the installation instruction on Debian as soon as possible.

For the part about interfacing JavaScript libraries, I think I understand, I will read the link you have put in your answer for more information.
I am not sure what you mean by 'external Javascript'. Do you mean linking Javascript's modules from a website, or something else?
I would understand that a compiled application would not be able to use changing resources in its core.
Another interpretation would be that any Javascript scripts (any modules, finally) that are not part of the Javascript implementation wouldn't work, which I could understand as well but would be less practical.

Thanks again for the fast answers, I learn quite a lot these days.
Have a good one.

joshtynjala

You can interface with existing JavaScript libraries, but you'll need to find or make some Haxe externs to expose the APIs to Haxe.

Be aware that using external JavaScript does not work with C++ and other non-JS targets. In those cases, you'll need to find appropriate implementations/libraries that are native to the target.

Nemo

Finally, the difference in installation are in Haxe and OPAM, not in Feathers UI, therefore, I have nothing to say about your guide.

If you still are interested in reading the document I made, I can send it to you with your preferred method as it is a bit long for a forum post. It is mostly paraphrasing and sometime more detailed instruction from your guide and a couple of other guides.

It may be more useful when things are stabler, but for the moment it is more of a temporary memo than anything else.

Nemo

Welll... I am starting to think I don't understand much of the principles behind Feathers UI, Haxe, OpenFL and the other related technologies after all. I learned about their existence in short period of time and I am starting to get a little bit confused.

Some of these questions are probably very basic stuff, so sorry to loose your time with those, I'm trying to put the pieces together.

After some reading on Haxe website, what I understand is that modules specific to certain languages are available to Haxe using externs, but such modules can't be compiled in another language than Javascript.
The same would go for modules in other languages.
Please correct me if I am wrong.

Then, a question about something I took for granted. Is there a link between Feathers.js and FeathersUI?

Last of all, would that be correct to say that the idea behind FeathersUI is to be able to program a Javascript application (or is it a Node application?) using FeathersUI for its UI, and then use Haxe and OpenFL to compile it in other languages for it to work on multiple system?
If that is the case, I suppose it would be possible to start from an Haxe-coded application and still use FeathersUI for its UI and that such an application could be compiled in any other languages supported by Haxe.
Am I understanding something wrong?

For what I see, using Haxe as the central language would make it more probable that an application would work on multiple systems without problem, as there would be no language specific modules to deal with except for Haxe's libraries.

Sorry for the triple post, I felt that my new post answers some of my previous questions and that there was no point in making you answer them first.

joshtynjala

Nemo Then, a question about something I took for granted. Is there a link between Feathers.js and FeathersUI?

I am not not familiar with Feathers.js, so no, there is no link.

Feathers UI originally derived its name from it's dependency on the Starling library. A starling is also a type of bird.

joshtynjala

Nemo FeathersUI is to be able to program a Javascript application (or is it a Node application?) using FeathersUI for its UI, and then use Haxe and OpenFL to compile it in other languages for it to work on multiple system?

It's best not to think of Feathers UI as targeting JavaScript primarily. JavaScript is one target among many, and it is not more important than any of the others.

I suspect that my previous answer will help make this point more clear because it seems that you incorrectly assumed that Feathers UI is associated with some other project. No worries, though! Maybe you can still find a use for Feathers UI inside of some larger system.

Nemo

joshtynjala For Feather.js and Feathers UI, I figured there was no link when I realized that it was not said anywhere that there was a link.
However, I was not specifically interested in Feathers.js, so this is not a worry. I found Feathers UI searching information about Feathers.js, it's just an happy coincidence.
That is just as well that there is no link, I already have enough things to figure out as it is, haha.
I didn't know a starling is a type of bird, so thanks, it makes more sense. My first language is French, so I don't know the specifics of many things as you can imagine.

So, in summary (correct me if I am wrong), Feathers UI is a framework that used AS3 and now is rebuilt to use Haxe toolkit.
It is not specifically linked to internet or any language.
It is used to build UI for compiled applications that runs on specific systems in a language the system can understand, using Haxe as compiler.
Obviously, I am talking about its goals and not what it can actually do as it is still in alpha.

Two weeks ago I didn't even know that such a thing existed, but Haxe seems like a good solution for my projects, and Feathers UI is useful for obvious reasons.

I will continue studying all of this and follow your project attentively.

Thank you for all the information, I was way off in my first understanding and it was really interesting.